My system of teaching is Tantric – I invented it. The old system is very difficult – it is called the Panini System. There it is necessary to learn by heart 4,000 sutras, then explanation – and it takes 12 years to learn Sanskrit. But I invented my system and it's called VagYoga: Mnemonic Sanskrit (http://www.vagyoga.co.in). It depends upon natural law and mnemonics. People can become experts in Sanskrit within 3 months. They can speak, they can write. Sometimes it takes 6 months – 108 lessons.
I have taught Dr. Mark Dyczkowski, for example, for 6 months according to the Mnemonic Sanskrit System and 6 months according to the Panini System. And then I taught him two years how to edit Tantric manuscripts. For about seven years he was coming to me to learn Sanskrit. First of all, it is difficult to teach pronunciation. Pronunciation is a different issue.
Sanskrit pronunciation is very close to music. And written Sanskrit is very close to Mathematics.
I'm teaching Sanskrit and Tantra on a theoretical and practical levels.
So I teach Sanskrit and Tantra theoretically. And I also teach the practical part.
In really Tantra depends upon letters of Sanskrit. Before tantrikas worshipped letters, not statues. There are 51 letters in Sanskrit and tantrikas worshipped them. Abhinavagupta explained it in different ways. And each letter has its meaning, in other languages – no meaning. For example A means Acyuta, or 'unchangeable', or Vishnu, U means Brahma, M means Mahesh – Shiva, E – Shakti.
Each of 51 letters has two meanings – gross meaning and sacred meaning. Gross meaning is for common people and sacred meaning is for advanced people, or secret. All Tantra are secret.
And every vedic mantra gives three meanings – ādhyatmik, ādhidevik and ādhibhautik. Ādhyatmik means spiritual, ādhibhautik means external, and ādhidevik means to protect when people are unable to control something. But Western people translated on surface, only word meaning as they could not penetrate inside. But two people tried to penetrate inside: one was Dayna Saraswaty, the other was Aurobindo Ghosh. They tried to penetrate into vedic spiritual meaning via meditation and via understanding the sacred meaning.
As we see nowadays, we have a lot of miscellaneous kinds of Yoga. Do you think it means the real practice of Yoga?
As for practice, nowadays usually people do Hatha Yoga. Hatha Yoga is very popular in the whole world, but it's physical practice only. After goes Tantra and it's penetration inside. Hatha Yoga is the surface – physical. Through Hatha Yoga people can't penetrate inside, and through Tantra people can penetrate inside and feel awakening. This is the difference between Hatha Yoga and Tantra. And I have already given lessons how to awaken internal energy – Kundalini.
In which texts or philosophical schools was Kundalini mentioned for the first time?
There are 28 branches inside Tantra. And Tantra began first of all in South India. Then that branch spread in India to the North (North of Kashmir and places near Nepal).
Just as in Hatha Yoga we find Gorakshan Asana, Matsiendr Asana, we can see that Gorath and Matsiendra entered Hatha Yoga and were there influenced by Buddhism. Gorakshanath was influenced by Buddhism in Nepal, as he lived near Nepal. This is one branch. It was near about X and XI centuries.
Another branch was in Kashmir (Kashmir Shaivism). It appeared near about VI to X centuries.
But both these branches originated from Tantra. What is Tantra? It was called Āgama.
Shiva has five faces (Sadyojāta; Vāmadeva; Aghora; Tatpurusha; Īshāna.)
So, from the eastern face appeared Purvanaya, from western face – Pashimanaya, left - Utranaya, right - Dakshinaya, on the top - Urdhvanaya – five faces. Parvati asks a question and Shiva answers. That came from mouth of Shiva that called - “Āgama” = “has come outside”.
And most important are Shakta Agama, Shaiva Agama, and Vaisnava Agama - three types.
Shaiva Agama pertains to Kashmir Shaivasm. Shakta Agama pertains to Shakti (Ten Mahavidyas). And Vaishnava Agama pertains to Vishnu.
I edited one book of Vaisnava Agama from Kashmir - “Samvit-Prakasa” (Vaisnava -Tantra) (by Vamana Datta of Kashmir, X century) and Dr. Mark Dyczkowski helped me in editing this book. In a nutshell, this is Tantra and people don't remember what Āgama is.
And also there exist 20 branches of Tantra in South India.
And Vira Shaiva Agama also came from 28 branches. And many Tantric books are written in provincial languages, not in Sanskrit. It's called “Vachana Sahitya.” It was written in Karnataka, South India.
A branch of Vira Shaiva Agama also exists in Varanasi, and I taught Sanskrit to the chief of this branch, too – his name is Dr. Chandrashekhar Swami.
So, these are different branches of Tantra which developed in parallel ways.
Ravana was also a follower of the Tantra in Yoga. He established Rameshwaram (Shiva Lingam) on the coast of Pushan in South India.
The first was Shiva Agama, after was Vaishnava Agama, and Tantra means Shakta Agama. Before Tantra was not famous, only Agamas were: Shiva Agama, Shakti Agama means Tantra. Nowadays Shakta Agama is what we call Tantra. And there are two branches of it: one is vama marga and second is dakshana marga. Vama marga, or Vama – “vama” means left, and “vama” means woman. “Vama” – left, “achar” – behaviour – and it means Bhairavi worship. And there also exists puja in Tantric system – Bhairavi Tantric Puja. Chakra means cycle. And people worship and make Bhairavi chakra puja. “Bhairavi” means initiated – a kind of a special woman. And Abhinavagupta indicated this bhairavi puja in Tantraloka.
Shat Chakra Nirupana was translated by John Woodroffe (Arthur Avalon) in book “The Serpent Power”. He was a judge in Calcutta and practised on his own. He took initiation from the Bengali Brahmin and practised and he found awakening. Then he translated “Shat Chakra Nirupana” and also a lot of other books.
As we know, there exist Tantra of the right way and Tantra of the left way, or Vamachara and Dakshanachara. One allows to use meat and wine, the other denies using “not satvic food and behaviour”. Why do you think people try to follow such different ways, but both looking for spirituality?
I heard that Western people practise the way of this Tantra, but they don't know the real meaning of Tantra. There exist system Panchamakar, or five “M”: madya (wine), matsya (fish), māṃsa (meat), mudrā (parched grain) and maithuna (sexual intercourse). But this is gross meaning.
As in Tantra, one word has two meanings: one meaning is on the surface for common people, the other, the spiritual meaning, is for advanced people. But Tantra is secret, and doing without Guru and practising without the supervision of Guru, people can become insane, as when the energy awakens, the person can get insane.
So, common people think that “fish” is simply fish, but settle meaning is Shambhavi Mudra.
Shambhavi Mudra means that your eyes are like fish’s. And fish has two colours – on the surface it is black, and below it is white, and when you rise your eyes, there are two colours – black and white. So if you swallow your eyes, it is called Shambhavi Mudra – meditation position.
Western people don't know this settle meaning. They think, Tantra means only sex, but without Mantra, and without Puja – no Tantra exist. They are wrong – they can't awake energy. Only through Puja, through Mantra – this is system – complete system! Otherwise they can't awake energy.
I have given the example about fish - there are people who think that “fish” from Panchamakar means fish and they catch, fry it and eat or bring to Bhairavi God as sacrifice. But no, it's only the surface meaning, the settle meaning is different!
So, meat is of red colour, and tongue means meat. So, we use tongue inside, we “eat meat” and it's called Khechary Mudra. The Shakty is on the top of the head and it's energy of Kundaliny. This energy moves slowly up to the top not within one day.
And Shakty meets Shiva on the top of the head and they “produce” amrita which drops down. And if we use tongue, the amrita drops on the end of the tongue and the body shines with energy. The person doesn't feel tired, has different thoughts, and many-many other things people have.
And in order to make Khechari Mudra proper way, there is also need to make it under the supervision of Guru?
Yes, it's true. Without teaching of Guru there is no way to make the cut of the tongue by yourself, it will be no energy. The settle meaning is called Dakshanachara. And the gross meaning is called Vamachara. In Vamachara the supervision of Guru is necessary, without Guru – there is no way. So, Tantra is always made under the supervision of Guru. Hatha-Yoga and Pranayama don't need Guru. After, with mantra you penetrate to Tantra, mantra means sound, and sound means God.
We have talked about Vamachara, but we have mentioned not all of them. Could you continue, please?
Abhinavagupta as well explained Vamanachara.
In Aghor Tantra, I think, people who practise it are from low caste. Aghori sits on the dead body, chants mantras – this is considered Black Tantra. Nowadays the Vamachara is famous because they go to the temples in India (Khadjuraho temples, Konar Temple) – and they find sexual statues and start to think this is Tantra. But it's wrong. All people who are married have this Tantra. Tantra is not sex.
In Tantra, there is some specific creation of the energy, and special mantras.
Gupta Sadhana Tantra is one of the books which was published by the Durbar Library, Nepal. There exists an explanation of Bhartramātrikā – Āthamātrika. Bhairamātrikā means that person should chant mantras 100 times and focus on each part of body one by one going from toe to top and also focus on each chakra – it is called Gupta Sadhana Tantra. This teaching is very deep, but you can't find any books on this and no Guru.
I have initiated one woman from Norway in this Tradition, her name is Borghil. She treats people from mental diseases. She has taken diksha from me and her energy awakened. She started to compose poems, but she had not been a poet before and made a lot of Tantric paintings and took photographs. She came to me and showed this Tantric paintings and photographs as well.
Does Shakti tradition exist in India nowadays?
The Shakti tradition has two ways: one in North India and the other in South India.
In North India, there is Durga Puja which has nine forms and it is very famous in Navaratri – it lasts for 9 days and people worship 9 Kumaris. It takes place twice a year, in autumn and in spring. And it is under Tantric system, but it is open to all. And any person can make Durga Puja without initiation.
There exists a famous book Durga Saptashati. It has 700 verses about Durga.
In South India it is called Lalita, but it comes under Ten Mahavidyas. Lalita means Tripurasundari and emanation of Ten Mahavidyas, but Durga is not included in it. A person can worship Dasha (ten) Mahavidyas if he has initiation, as without initiation it's not possible to worship them.
Anyway, the live representatives of this tradition are very rare to meet because the person who can initiate is Guru. And even if somebody finds the representative of this tradition, he has to practise years under Guru’s supervision before getting shaktipat, otherwise – no. Very rarely in India you can meet a real Guru of this tradition, but people are still there – in Maharashtra some people are still there, who can give shaktipat.
There was Swami Bhagawan Nityananda and his disciple Swami Muktananda – they invited me and I lived almost two month in the ashram to teach Sanskrit. And his disciple, a lady, was also there.
But in North India, Shakti tradition is very rare.
Bhakti Tradition exists in South India and Gudjarat.
Kundalini means both Bhakti and knowledge - Jnana Yoga and Bhakti Yoga. Jnana means knowledge and Bhakty means devotion, obedience to God. Christianity is Bhakty and Islam is pure Bhakti – it means obedience.
In the last chapter of Bhagavad-Gita Krishna says:
“By transcendental devotional service one is able to know Me, truly, as all pervasive and also as I am”.
Bhagavad-Gita (18.55)
bhaktyā māmabhijānāti yāvānyaścāsmi tattvataḥ |
tato māṃ tattvato jñātvā viśate tadanaṃtaram || (18.55)
“...surrender upto Me exlusively; I will deliver you from all sinful reaction...”
Bhagavad-Gita (18.66)
sarvadharmānparityajya māmekaṃ śaraṇaṃ vraja |
ahaṃ tvāṃ sarvapāpebhyo mokṣyayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ || (18.66)
- this is Bhakti.
Also there exists “Hari Krishna, Hari Rama” movement nowadays. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was the first person in this movement. First of all, he invented Bhakti in Bangalore – chant mantra in a rhythmical way outside-outside-outside from the body.
What do you think, for whom will this practice work nowadays? As there exists an opinion that chanting mantras all day long works only for the people from lowest casta and for women.
This meaning is on the surface. If people chant mantras in rhythmical way – after one hour of chanting with drums and other musical instruments –slowly they come inside and go to the unified field. Everywhere in every person there is a unified field.
Scientists have been searching for a long time to answer the question: what is the unified field of the universe? - cosmos. Einstein was searching for this unified field of cosmos. First of all, he thought that a black hole is the unified field of cosmos. But later he himself rejected this. There is no unified field.
Unified field means where the energy comes from. Where the cosmos appeared.
Similar to cosmos, every person - a human being - is a representative of cosmos. This whole cosmos entered into human body – power, water, fire, sky. Soul is the representative of God – everything appeared in human body – so we can understand where this unified field is in the body.
So, Tantra identifies the location of unified field in the human body. But still scientists are searching for unified field of this cosmos, but they cannot find it yet.
But the only thing they managed to find is Big Bang Theory and after that they have been searching and searching...
So, Tantra helps find answers to scientists as well.
But the sound also has five levels, not just the sound which we can hear right now. The sound creates Love, Hate, Jealousy, Fight, War (Distraction) and this is settle meaning.
In all religions, people have rosary and chant mantras – it's sound as well! They don't see God as the sound itself is God. People want to find the God and they chant to him. But we are talking not about this usual sound, it's beaten settle sound. The whole world, as you see, can hear beaten settle sound: you beat and the sound comes, vak (talk) and sound comes, blink your eyes – sound comes. So, there are billions of sounds in the world. The sound creates jealousy, creates love, creates hate – not internal. And still scientists are searching for this settle sound. They cannot find it till now. There exist five levels of sound.
In Tantric system and Aurveda it is said that there are 49 types of air (or wind). And fire has 14 types.
So, 14 levels of fire and 49 levels of air, and then we come to sky, then we come to sound.
As we know, Sanskrit is full of sacred meanings, and each letter and each word has gross meaning and spiritual meaning. This sacred meaning takes roots from Tantra as well or from other philosophical schools, doesn’t it?
Real tantric books, as I have explained before, are Shaiva Agama – and there are many other books unpublished of Shiva Agama in Indian Office Library in London. Many manuscripts of Tantra are still unpublished and they are still there. And there are many Tantric books in English which are already published and many departments at the University of Tantra where it is studied, and taught, and Tantric books are published.
Letters are tantric things and letters represent deities. And Abhinavagupta in Tantraloka explained letters as well. Tantra means sound, and letters mean sound.
The first person had thoughts and after language appeared. So, Tantra explains thoughts as well, and shows how enter letters. Thoughts have no form. Thoughts in Sanskrit are named “sphota”.
There are many branches in Shaiva Agama and they explain Tantra in different ways.
Sphota (Sanskrit Sphoṭa from the root sphuṭ- 'to burst') - in the Indian philosophy of language, eternal and indivisible archetype of sound and meaning. Originating as a psychological concept to explain the phenomenon of understanding the meaning of words. Sphota gradually acquires the features of a metaphysical concept.
According to Patanjali, sphota is a description of the invariance of speech.
According to the concept of followers Bhartrihari, sphota acts folded eternal essence of the word, which is manifested phonemes at the time of utterance. It is thanks to sphota in pronouncing certain sounds in the mind of the listener, like the "flash", highlighted the meaning of what was said.
Whom can you mention as your teacher and your Guru?
I was initiated in 1956. This is different. Tantric goes this universe – Shakti. They (Shakty) attract and we run to them. They are waiting for disciples. So, in 1956 my marriage was fixed by my parents. But something occurred to me and I ran to my Guru. I had not known him before, and I lived there in the cave. And one day, early in the morning, he came to me to pronounce something into my ear – and pppssshhh – Awakening! In less than one minute it happened. Than I found many-many things, invented a new system of learning Sanskrit, I found the way how to enter Sanskrit, and I invented my VagYoga system, and I entered all Vedas and different Sanskrit books. I was a simple person before, a simple boy. I was only 22 years old when I was initiated. Then I became the Professor and Director of Sanskrit Institute and I started to write down original thoughts. I wrote 50 original books and translated 300 manuscripts!
People conduct researches and they find answers and receive PhD on the grounds of my books.
We know that there were a lot of people who studied by your method and now many of them are famous in philosophy, in literature, and so on. Do you have any among your disciples who can also teach Sanskrit by your method?
Yes, there is one German boy – he is about 40 years old and he is teaching Sanskrit in Germany by my system. And in Italy also – Mrs. Cinzia Pieruccini – Professor of Sanskrit. She was learning from me together with Mark Dyczkowski. And she sends her disciples to learn by my system as well.
At the same time, I think that in my system there should be only one chair to teach my VagYoga System in order to learn Sanskrit quickly.
If the person has a desire to learn Sanskrit by your System, where can they find you or who can get your course of Sanskrit?
If the person wishes to learn Sanskrit, I teach and they follow. But teaching Sanskrit is sadhana, it's not like other languages.
Learning Sanskrit is also Tantra. I invented this system through Tantra. All Sanskrit letters appear from chakras. Before it was not this way, I have searched and learned this question a lot.
In your method, VagYoga, do people need to do any sadhana and if yes what is it?
In short, theoretical knowledge is what we receive from books. And practical one is when we give shaktipat - it is called practice.
There was one American lady, her name is Juliya, and I gave her name Jualaa. I have 10 lessons to her. After several days she was sitting in Kali Tempel and she suddenly awakened her energy. And her eyes became red, and people touched her feet as if she were a Goddess. It happened! People are curious at times, they can conform their energy, otherwise, they can only believe in this energy. Some people are afraid of this energy, most Indian are afraid of this energy – they think they may become insane if they find this energy. So, I give two types of energy and they feel satisfied – it's ok. And if they are not satisfied, they try to confirm this energy – and practice by themselves.
In book by John Woodroffe “Serpent Power” we see the explanation of 7 chakras system. Why in some schools we see one way of description the chakras, and in other schools it's not the same. There exists different description of quantity of chakras as 5, 6, 7, 12 …
Good question! Sir John Woodroffe explained that according to Shat Chakra Nirupana book there are only 6 chakras. The 7th chakra is out of thoughts, beyond them. And really there are 7 chakras.
As there are many Tantric books in Sanskrit - Shat Chakra Nirupana took the most essential from different Tantric books. And I edited one Tantric book – Maha Nirvana Tantra.
So, some books say that Surya Chakra is between heart and Manipua Chakra, in the navel – so they explain 8 chakras.
There exist the Prana Kundaliny. Between heart and navel there is Suriya chakra. In Sundary Lahary, composed by Shankaracharia, a very nice explanation of chakras is given. This book gives extensive information about chakras. And this book says that your body is the place of chakras, but outside the body you make ShriYantram and worship. And ShriYantra has nine corners. For example, the star by Juise (on the flag of Israel) was taken from ShriYantra. One corner means legs, another corner means Shiva, and so on. So, tantrikas have spiritual experience and explain practically.
And Gorakshanath system also speaks about carna chakra. When I found this initiation – it meant, my Tantric Guru had given it to me, it opened for the first time. Then I was studying, studying, studying and I found real Tantric books. The information in Tantric books is not written systemically. Some elements are in one place and some are in the other – so it's difficult to match them together, but Shat Chakra Nirupana combines the teaching as the conclusive book.
I found two chakras on the head near ears – one is called Devahu (left), and the other is called Pitahu (right). You can invite daities in the left ear and sisters and brothers in the right ear.
And one more chakra is on the top of the head and it is called Bindu – once people get the experience, they start to practise as it was described in originally Tantric books.
So, there are many ancient Tantric books, and I have written the modern Tantric book “Shri Vagyoga Tantram”. I went to the Himalayas for one month and composed 600 shlocas in Sanskrit – it just came to my mind. And one of my disciples translated this book into English. The name of the disciple is Veronica and she is from the USA and she is studying from me nowadays. But I have not found any translators from Sanskrit to Hindi for this book yet. This book is modern Tantric nowadays.
But before – there was no Tantric books. I think, after X-XI centuries no new Tantric book have ever been composed.
In VI century the books of Kashmir Shaivaism were written. In X century, Abhinavagupta Pada was written, and also the books in Gorakshanath system.
I added two volumes in Gorasha Saghita. I found two volumes manuscript and edited them, they were written by Gorakshanath between X-XI centuries. One is devoted to mercury, and the other – to Yogic System. Mercury means alchemy. So, Gorakshanath transformed copper into gold through mercury. So, after this time there were no books about Tantra. So, people understand theory but don't understand practice.
What do you think will be in future with spiritual teachings? As nowadays we see that a lot of “spiritual schools” are just business.
Future is very deep. There exist tree types of future. Present, past and coming past future. And just now in this moment future is as well. Tomorrow is also future. And this time is also future, it coms quick - this is past future.
It's time and it has no end.
Time and space – still out of time – continue. So, people are changing in this time and then improve. First of all, they fight and then – shanty. Now people have improvement and in the end they go to shanty.
This way they will understand the value of shanty. Now they don't understand the value of shanty, they understand the value of money and that's why they fight.
How many centuries will it take to understand the value of shanty?
As there exist three types of future every moment, people can change, but it will take time.
Slowly — improvement, improvement, improvement. As Tantra has two meanings: one is gross meaning for common people, the other is settle meaning for advanced people. And then people become advanced, they will understand, they will find. And the whole world will be in shanty.
But now – fighting.
In some texts we see that real yoga practice takes all day long and a person have to give up social life. But nowadays we see it is not possible for most people to practise the way. Do you think, Yoga practice should change taking into account modern hectic pace of life, or should not?
The practice is changed according to the way of controlling our mind. Nowadays people are controled by their mind. The mind has different sanscaras, and the mind runs there and there... There is no concentration. We have control over mind in different ways. It needs practising authority - authority means tapas to control mind. So, if the mind is centred, it is very powerful, but it is scattered through different desires and because of this it has no power. There are thousands of desires and they scatter energy. Mind is very powerful. So, in all practices you need to concentrate your mind.
In Yajurveda it was said: «We change our energy of our mind, by making the mind one. And all desires come from the mind»
So mind should be one.
There exist so many practices only for this one purpose. People remain silent in order their mind should become one, people don't eat that makes their mind not run there and there and after practice it becomes centred. This is a key idea - to control mind. In all system we see that people practise in order to control their mind. If you have one mind – you have success.
In Hatha-Yoga Pradipica it is the same - people conduct physical practise to control their mind.
In Yoga Sutras we see the same picture. They give techniques to control their mind. In Tantra also there are techniques to control mind. There are many ways, but the goal is one. The goal is to find unity, as this is the source of this world. Then you find the source of the world - it will be shanty.
Who am I? Who are you? - if they find this answer – it's shanty. This is the goal of all – Tantra and Yoga and all.
There are different ways but the goal is one.
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